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The Paranoid Android
...musings of a mechanically depressed robot...
Saddam to hang...
23 comments or Leave a comment
From: gweedeauxsl33t Date: November 7th, 2006 03:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hey PA,

You got any sources to backup those statements? Maybe the number of folks Sadaam killed during his illustrious tenure, and conversely a credible account of the casualties suffered during the current conflict?

Rhetoric and talking points are all well and good, but I'd be ever so grateful for a little evidence to back that up.

Thanks. Ever so. In advance.
paranoidandroid From: paranoidandroid Date: November 8th, 2006 01:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
Before making my post I did a little "internet" research and came across a site stating Saddams top 5 crimes. (http://history1900s.about.com/od/saddamhussein/a/husseincrimes.htm)
This is where I got the number of folks he was accused of killing. The number that is continually banded about in the news here is 180k.

The number of civilian casualties in Iraq are hard to come by (I have taken the liberty of counting both conflicts even though the first war was considered "legal" by the majority of the world) the new scientist puts the current conflict at more than 100,000 deaths(http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596) as does the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3962969.stm)
Wiki for the gulf war lists 100,000 loss of Iraq troops... the number of civilian deaths is small in comparison but still controversial.

There are other sites with lower death counts for the current conflict but the information is not dated - I can't tell if it's from years ago or it's a more conservative estimate.
The number of allied forces who have lost their lives is over 3000 (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/16/iraq.main/index.html)

Measuring the effect on the environment is full of subjectivity... but in my opinion "the west" - and by that I mean western Europe and the United States - are responsible for a large majority of the greenhouse gas emissions.

The Kyoto treaty (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2233897.stm) has had little to no effect on the rich nations damaging the planet, while at the same time looking down their noses at the developing nations for copying them.
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 9th, 2006 12:27 am (UTC) (Link)
You're counting the death toll from Desert Storm? That's pretty absurd. Why not count those in Saddams atrocities, he ordered those troops to start the war in which they were killed? Are we also responsible for the deaths of any innocents in Kuwait that Saddams troops may have caused? You want to blame the west for the deaths of the troops we sent to war and for the troops HE sent to war, you aren't making any sense.
paranoidandroid From: paranoidandroid Date: November 9th, 2006 01:06 am (UTC) (Link)
I said the allies were responsible for as many Iraqi deaths as Saddam was. They were.

Did we need to wade into Iran with cluster bombs and high altitude bombing? Could we have used less fatal force? We were not exactly playing on a level field. Less than 100 allied forces died in the gulf war - and a significant number of those were from "friendly fire"

That aside - my question is should Saddam be killed for his crimes. The rest is to add perspective.

Even if you ignore the gulf war - and change my original statement to he killed hundreds of thousands - "we" killed just one hundred thousand - once you get into that sort of magnitude it doesn't make much difference in morality to me.
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 9th, 2006 12:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes, Saddam should swing for his crimes. I think you should ask the legal system of Iraq if they think it's justice. As for the fatal force question, should we use harsh language instead of bullets and bombs?
jestermephist From: jestermephist Date: November 9th, 2006 01:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
oh man, I did it again, I am having no luck with this lately.
jestermephist From: jestermephist Date: November 9th, 2006 12:29 am (UTC) (Link)
The anonymous comment was me, if it shows up. Sorry about that, forgot to login.
paranoidandroid From: paranoidandroid Date: November 9th, 2006 01:16 am (UTC) (Link)
No problem - I screen anon comments to prevent spam bots benefitting from even the little traffic I get. I've unscreened so you should be able to see it now.
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