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Fuckwits of the world speak... - The Paranoid Android
...musings of a mechanically depressed robot...
paranoidandroid
paranoidandroid
Fuckwits of the world speak...
The problem with Anti-Americanism by Joe Taylor...

Regardless of whether the United States' recent actions are right, wrong, or anything in between, the fact is that most people in the world oppose both them and the United States in general.

Does this sound like paranoia? I think so. There are a lot of people who believe that "America" (that is the current administration of the United States of America) have meddled in affairs that were best left alone, and stormed into situations for reasons other than stated. Is this anti-Americanism, or anti Bushism?

Most of the article is just mumbo jumbo bullshit, but the bit that really pissed me off was his "forth kind of Anti-Americanism."

Like cultural conservatism, it [anti-Americanism IV] is based on national interests and on preservation of a national identity, and like anti-globalization, it opposes what it perceives as economic domination by the United States.[...]( ... definitely every country in Europe, where this kind of anti-Americanism is the strongest),

This pseudo intellectual jumped up dip shit is calling me anti American because I might buy British goods over American goods out of some form of patriotism to my country. So my patriotism is wrong, yet his obvious "Americans are so hard done by" patriotism is fine and dandy? Fuck that. It's stupid idiots like him that give the average American national a bad name. I'm not anti-American - but right now I'm 100% anti Joe Taylor.

Tags: ,
Current Mood: pissed off pissed off

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Comments
tweezlebum From: tweezlebum Date: December 5th, 2003 06:54 am (UTC) (Link)
See, I'm having a hard time with the idea that you must be anti-American if you're pro-English or -British. That's like saying you must be pro-abortion if you're pro-choice. Pro-English and pro-American are not mutually exclusive, and, using your example, I don't see why you should be considered anti-American if you buy British goods to support your own economy. If you bought British goods because you were trying to say "Fuck you, America! I don't need your stupid oranges!" then yeah, I can see how that'd be anti-American. So if you're pro-British, are you anti-World because you're choosing British goods over Saudi goods or Chinese goods or whatever else? What a load of bollocks.
paranoidandroid From: paranoidandroid Date: December 5th, 2003 07:48 am (UTC) (Link)

pththththth

It is people like him that cause unrest.

I really do think that more British people should endever to buy British goods if at all possible and providing they aer not extortionately priced. This will help out our economy, there will be less unemployment, and maybe, just maybe my taxes will go down.

I'm not saying I hate everyone *else* (even though I probably *do* hate just about everybody!), I'm just being a selfish bastard.

It was his hypocrasy that got to me the most.

... plus there are one or two Americans I like... one especially that I like "quite a bit" ;)
tweezlebum From: tweezlebum Date: December 5th, 2003 09:16 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: pththththth

I like the new icon. ;)
From: (Anonymous) Date: December 5th, 2003 09:56 am (UTC) (Link)

Well, you kinda misunderstood my article

First, I'm not an American patriot. If you ever read my comments in OSPolitics, you'll see that I'm very anti-patriotic. Further, I am actually anti-American, but my anti-Americanism is based only on opposing most recent US actions rather than on thinking that everything the USA has done since its independence is wrong or supporting flogging people for premarital sex in Malaysia.

Second, if you buy only British goods because you're a Brit then you're not necessarily anti-American - you're just a nationalist. Not all non-American nationalists are anti-American. The people I was thinking about when I wrote about anti-Americanism no. 4 are Chirac and Schroeder, who are anti-American because the national interest of the USA is at odds with the national interests of France and Germany and with the regional interest of Europe. Do you really think Chirac cares about Iraqis? Hell no; he cares almost only about France and a little bit about the EU, and right now caring about France and the EU means opposing the USA.

Third, I don't think Americans are so hard done by. I think it's idiotic to only buy products made in one country out of patriotism, regardless of which country it is. Your patriotism is wrong, and the patriotism of 95%+ of Americans I've talked to is wrong.

Fourth, yes, thinking that most of what the USA has done lately is wrong is anti-American, as long as you blame the USA as a country and not the Bush administration. Almost all American liberals consider most of the USA's recent actions wrong, but they usually consider them the fault of the government, not the country. If you fault the USA as a country for things like the Iraq invasion, the occupation, and the failure of the War on Terror ®, then yes, you're anti-American. However, such an anti-Americanism is what I call circumstantial anti-Americanism in the article, which I care to distinguish from the five kinds I argue against. I really don't have any problem with circumstantial anti-Americans, considering that I am one.

Fifth and finally, the first sentence in the article has nothing to do with paranoia and everything to do with stating a fact. I know it casts all who oppose the USA in sort of negative light because it may make them look as if they are anti-American regardless of whether the USA is right or wrong. But it's not what I meant; what I was basically saying is that most people are anti-American, as a statement of fact, and that I'm not making any judgment on whether the USA is right or wrong.
paranoidandroid From: paranoidandroid Date: December 8th, 2003 04:02 am (UTC) (Link)

Thank you for your reply...

... and for clearing up some of my misunderstandings.

If I misunderstood your article could it be due in some way to ambiguity in your wording?

It is hard for someone accused of said Anti-Americanism not to see it in as casting them in a negative light. I took such exception to this as I happen to be married to an American. Due to this, I consider myself to be reasonably well informed on all things "American" and sympathetic to those who suffer from some of the "Anti-Americanism" shown by idiots who cannot tell the difference between a people and the administration that governs them. Thankfully there are damn few (perhaps even none) of these idiots in my social circle.

Your article does come across as someone complaining about the Anti-Americanism. This, in turn, suggests you are defending your nation, and therefore a patriot. I'm not sure what definition of patriot you use, but I use the following:
nationalist -- (one who loves and defends his or her country)

Now I have no idea if you love your country, but you do seem to be defending it.

The French rarely give a damn about anything but themselves and their reasons for opposing the war in Iraq was purely financial. They were making a shit load of money on the "Oil for Aid" agreement. However, this is the French administration making these decisions. The average (intelligent) French person has as much in common with Chirac as I do with Blair, and even you do with Bush. Now the reason I say intelligent is the stupid among us are those who believe the government of our countries are always right. It is these people that often give the rest of the country a bad name. These people are often responsible for voting for the current administration in the first place.

When talking about "buying British," it was not at the exception of everything else. In Britain, due to somewhat bizarre EC rulings, many European mainland goods are actually slightly cheaper than our own. This is due to massive subsidies in places like France and Spain, and the government here's inability to effective tax the imports due to EC rules. Even more bizarre is the fact that the UK pays large taxes to the EC so it can subsidise our competitors.

I make a point of buying British apples to support our farmers who are getting the shit end of the stick. This is not because I'm anti-French (although I am) - it's because if all our farmers went out of business the country would hit another recession, I'd get no pay rise, and might even loose my job. I think the couple extra pence per apple are worth that. Patriotism holds a second place to job security.

You are right to distinguish between country and administration. When it's reported that "America went to war with Iraq" it is widely understood that the people of America had no choice in such matters. (Hell even Blair, the so called "partner" had little choice but to follow in after bush decided to bomb the crap out of Hussain's residence. I believe Powel even advised against an early strike.)

I think your "fact" is inaccurate. I don't believe there is this massive anti American feeling the world over. There are defiantly hot spots (like Iraq, and the Middle East in general.) Europe, for the most part, is ambivalent towards the states in general, although many are against the military action taking place.
From: (Anonymous) Date: December 5th, 2003 12:03 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hmm..

I extremely like the way you reversed the meaning of that first paragraph of his like rearranging the order of pixels in a jpeg image, and calling it something else...
paranoidandroid From: paranoidandroid Date: December 8th, 2003 04:09 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Hmm..

If you are going to accuse me of something, please state it in clear terms so I can redress your concerns. If I misunderstood the first paragraph, please inform me as to its meaning. It seems to be perfectly clear to me.

BTW "I extremely like" is piss poor use of grammar.
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